Wednesday, February 09, 2011

Talk About Runaway Horses....Whew

Some may notice that I deleted yesterday's blog entry which was MY personal take on the use of certain theories of therapy and trauma to justify calling NMoms nasty names. It was NOT directed at either side of the legislation debate nor was it meant to deny the real pain that comes from adoption. It was not posted to precipitate a debate on whether or not we should apologize to our children for anything. It was meant to say one thing and one thing only.


I will not apologize for feeling like there is no excuse for any one adopted person slandering mothers across the board just because they drew a loser. I will not apologize for considering name-calling juvenile, ill-mannered and counter-productive.

We have reached a place I thought we'd never reach..where we are being acknowledged as having some stake and some rights in the ongoing battle. I didn't want to mess that up at all.

So, to my adopted friends, I am sorry if it sounded like I was denying your wounds. I don't deny them. I know they are real because I have a few of my own. I was objecting to the unkind, incorrect and vicious name-calling of a minute but very loud number of adopted adults.

As far as the legislation is concerned, I have friends on both sides of that issue and my ideas about it are already known. I also have a lot of respect for those on both sides of the legislation debate.

But I don't respect a person who doesn't even know me, lumping me in with the lowest common denominator of mothers. I don't respect people who don't even make the effort to be civil and mature. It was to those that I directed yesterday's blog...NOT to the entire community of adoptees.

And I still have serious reservations about Verrier's work.  Now, I am going to go take something for this headache and sit in a dark room and scream like a chicken.

Time out, everyone!


Anonymous said...

Missed your blog yesterday wish I hadn't I agree we do have wounds as mothers of loss. I also have seen the
wounds adoptee's carry. I hate adoption.

Take care of yourself Robin and rest.

Sandy Young said...

I saw the beginning but missed the good parts, apparently. Sorry. I agree that there are wounds on both sides; I understand theirs as much as possible, and am thrilled that they are beginning to recognize ours. Hopefully, this is a minor hitch in the gitalong, and all will be well, Grasshopper.

ms. marginalia said...

I am sorry that you were called a "bio-abandoner." Name calling is so infantile. I hate it when some combative first mothers I know call me a "woundie" or whiny "victim" because I refuse to refute Verrier's theory altogether.

Dialogue about adoption is contentious, especially when the primal wound is added to the mix. I take Verrier's argument with a grain of salt, but some of it makes sense to me. I don't believe it's universal or that everyone feels bloodied forever. It's just a framework that some people find useful for describing their experience with adoption; it works for me.

I appreciate standing with first mothers and learning from you. I don't blame you for making decisions you felt you had to make. I don't blame my mother for feeling alone and scared and being bullied by her parents, even though she was 22 when she had me. I don't even blame her for rejecting me over and over and denying me. We are past that now. Blame is useless.


Robin said...

I think the thing that frustrates me the most is that someone might think I made a decision. I know it is hard for some to accept the concept of a time when a very young girl (as I was) did what we were told to do. By the time those social workers and my family got through with me, I didn't even realize that I could go against them. All I knew is that I was bombarded with how selfish I was, how I had hurt everyone and how toxic I would be to my children. Being backed up against a wall and waving a while flag is not a is a surrender.

Anonymous said...

Ms Marginalia,

As a young woman I did NOT have the choice to keep me son. As a young woman my mom took me to L.A. County
Adoptions. The "social" worker then took over. She made
sure that my son's dad and I never lived a minute together
therefore he wasn't even considered as far as signing adoption papers.

If you think this was my decision on any way it wasn't my decision as a young woman would have been to keep my family intact. Others my mom, the wrecker tore my family
apart. I truly wish I had had a decision to make. We were
at the mercy of others and they didn't care one iota for us
or our babies
If I had been older maybe I could and would have been able to make that decision.

Chris said...

""I don't blame you for making decisions you felt you had to make.""

HUH?!? "decisions"?!?

How many times does it have to be repeated...
that for many of the young unwed mothers from the BSE, they weren't allowed to make their OWN decisions...those 'decisions' were made for the young mothers by those who 'decided' she will not keep her own baby, no matter if she cried, no matter if she screamed, no matter if she begged, pleaded or bargained.
Just say..Bye Bye Baby! and baby was gone!

BD said...

I was in total agreement with you Robin I'm sick of ahistorical people

ms. marginalia said...

Robin, I am commenting from my phone and my previous message was sent before I finished.

I truly am sorry to have hurt you by my word choice. Coercion is nasty and horrible and still pervasive. It is unconscionable.

I triggered at least three of you, but that was not my intention. I am an adoptee who truly values first mothers and their perspectives.

My point in writing earlier today was to say that blame, name calling, and berating others sucks. I am sorry to have ignited another powder keg. Nothing could have been further from my intention.

It is triggering for me to be jumped on, as well. We all have our wounds.

ms. marginalia said...

Okay. No mothers ever--ever--ever--have had a choice. Message received.

Robin said... absolutes. It is not that we think every mother surrendered against her will. There were a few that made the decision. These usually were from later eras but there were some. It is that we decry the stereotype and the Industry lies that say we all did when MOST of us had no choice.

This whole subject seems triggering on both ends and that is not, again, my objective. I was just trying to reason against hateful name-calling and tarring all mothers with the same brush.

Those of us who were coerced, who had not say, no autonomy, are rightfully hurt and indignant when strangers who are NOT our children want to paste labels on all of us.

A little mutual respect for feelings would go a long way. I don't care if adoptees on private groups and among themselves bandy that abandoner term around all day. But in public forums where we also post and have a voice, we would like to see a bit of decency towards us.

And to our faces?...You don't want to go there.

Chris said...

quoting myself.."that for many of the young unwed mothers from the BSE,""

I said 'many', not all. I said the 'BSE', I mentioned no other time. I spoke to a specific group of 'many mothers', not all.
I really hate when I have to keep clarifying myself.
And I don't get 'triggered', another word that has become so commonplace in Adoptoland, especially in regards to nmothers. That 'trigger' word, I believe has been way overused and a word used to hide behind by some nmothers(**I said 'some'). As if all nmothers are so fragile, the mere mention of anything reminding them of the past is 'triggering' and send them into a fainting spell. I wasn't 'triggered'...I was stating something I know to be true, from my own experience, that of other BSE mothers I know, women's history during the BSE and just a bit of actual research.
If one is discussing any subject, and one it then the only reason a person replies, is because one is 'triggered' in to replying or is it because one has a true interest in that particular subject?

ms. marginalia said...

Well then, *I* am triggered, Chris. Sorry, but I came here TRULY to offer support. I am an adoptee who is new in reunion, not new to searching, but has spent most of her time around adoptees. I am open and ready to learn, but I don't want to be beat over the head any more than you do.

I know that most of you (and I am saying MOST) had no choice and your babies were taken from you against your will by powers-that-be, whether family, social workers, churches, what-have-you.

I know many adoptees whose mothers were older than you, like mine was, when we were relinquished.

I know there are no absolutes, but the adoptee in me felt I had to appease you and back off.

I felt last night that whatever I said I would be called out and trashed here. You can tell me that I made that up in my head, but that's how I felt.

I respect all of you very much.

Again, I didn't come here to name call. Have I done any such thing? I used a word that was hurtful to you. I have apologized. I do not know what else to do. I won't make the same mistake again.

Anonymous said...

Ms Marginalia,

I was one of the moms that responded. I
Really wanted my baby. I know I wanted
more than the woman who adopted him
I know this because he was my flesh and
bloody baby. To her he was a baby something
she coveted and if he wasn't adopted by her
she would have moved on to another baby as
simple as that.
Mothers from our era did not have ANY choice
we were used for someone else's pain. I was 17
so had to depend on others. I do think your mom
was from that era too even thigh she was older
there had to be some reason she couldn't keep
you. I know those unwed mothers homes took
older women too.
I would like you to keep posting we can share
and learn from each other. You might be able
to understand your mom a little better and we
all can use help there.

Robin said...

I doubt that any adoptee can truly understand what's it's like to be a first mother just as a first mother cannot fully appreciate what it's like to be adopted. However, we can learn from each other and help one another. We all have pain from adoption but let's remember those of us here are all on the same side.

@Anon 12:52,
I agree with what you wrote. My APs would have been perfectly happy with another baby but my nmother only wanted me. I was not interchangeable to my nmother. It is a different kind of relationship.

Anonymous said...


Mothers and babies aren't interchangeable. Only when adoption comes into play are mothers and babies sacrificed
Those who adopt will swear they feel the same even those who have had their own baby. If they told the truth adoption would not be flourishing the lie creates even more
problems than it solves. If truths were told and mothers supported we would have a healthier society.